@Jilora.9524 said:
@"Cyninja.2954" said:The core of the issue remains as always:
Different skilled/able players getting thrown together when this is not the goal of the group or desired.
It doesn't matter where a player stands in this situation experience wise. There are unskilled know-it-alls who overestimate their ability and performance wildly (very common in players who have managed the transition into challenging content, but actually lack the performance of top end players). There are very high skilled players who just want a smooth and fast run. There are more relaxed players who care less about speed but rather a clean run. There are completely new players who are willing to learn, but lack the chance to do so. Etc.
The current LFG system does not allow for an appropriate way to distinguish between all of these players. This is compounding on top of the already massive lack in regard to class composition and role desires of groups in the LFG system, for which already players have to find work around solutions (most often via abbreviations). The old KP approach used by players was a band-aid fix via content clear amount to approximate a players ability to adapt to specific groups, while at the same time giving a certain guidance as to which level of play the group is aiming for (
See AlsoFrequently Asked Questions - KillProofKillproof für StrikesWelche Abkürzung steht für was – Guide zum Lfg-Tool0-50
KP beginner,
50-100 KP
experienced but still likely with HFB,
200 KP
know mechanics by heart with still a HFB,
300 KP
PUG speedrun with likely no HFB). This is no longer available and as such the actual problems just increased, compounded again by the current split between old and new KP, which resulted in the necessity of using a 3rd party site.
Until the developers understand and address the core of the issue, this problem will not go away and simply shift from one iteration and player made solution to another, with varying degrees of toxicity to accompany these "solution", directly linked to how good the player made solutions can manage the group creations necessities (grouping similar skilled players, grouping roles, communication of the groups wishes past the content to be run). As is right now, killproof.me is a step back to pinging KP because while it allows a better overview of total KP, it does not allow for distinction in group play style. In accordance with this step back, toxicity has increased.
There is no way for any developer to be able to create a lfg that distinguishes a players skill level or desires. That is what the title in your lfg is for. Chill run or looking for certain things. Groups aren't just thrown together. Players don't read or join things they shouldn't. How does a dev fix that? Different skilled players aren't just thrown together. Alot of games they are with a que and you just get 5 players of varying skill that match predefined roles. You can't do that in gw2.
True mostly for skill level, though there are methods to let players judge another players experience in a better way.
Untrue for desire. A more comprehensive LFG system would allow for better communication of what the group is looking for. The fact that some players are unable to read is a different issue.
First we would need to be able to actually create searches via a more comprehensive tool, then we can worry about players not reading what is in the group description. Which in its self is very limited text wise.
Second, to claim that the bare minimum of a small text box is the best there can be is ludicrous. Other MMOs manage just fine in having better LFG systems, for example by letting players dictate which class/classes they are looking for. So I fail to see how this area has no room for improvement. Having even the ability to limit a missing spot to classes which can provide a specific boon would already go a long way in weeding out players who are not appropriate for the group as example.
@Jilora.9524 said:Pinging proved nothing when you can pass content being carried fake pinging or even now buy a title run to qualify for content.
Untrue.
I keep hearing this as an argument, and it simply is not true or at best for fringe cases. The amount of runs you would have to buy in order to be set in KP is so high, that only very few players would be able or willing to do so.
That said, small FYI: most sell guilds have lists of accounts whom they have sold to. Players talk and exchange information. Especially in raids, you will find yourself across multiple block lists very fast if you continually fake KP or pretend to have acquired KP which you bought. In fractals, where buying high amounts of KP is rarer, block lists do the trick.
@Jilora.9524 said:No one can fix some player fake pinging something and hoping for carry. I still don't get how you can say this change created more toxic behavior when it's exactly the same.Are there dozens more fake pinging? Are t4 and cms pug groups wiping all the time because of this where before the change absolutely nobody fake pinged? If so find a static if you think you are so great so you can avoid them. Nothings changed except you can't earn stuff to ping and if those players had nothing to ping to get into your group before it's exactly the same.
On the one hand you argue that nothing has changed, only to then question your own argument. Obviously things have gotten muddier and more problematic when creating groups. That is unrelated to players faking KP, which was present before already. It is simply a bigger issue now because as mentioned by TC, now players with low KP and likely experience have it far harder to find similar minded/skilled groups.
Again, if the system was not working, it would not have survived this long. The fact that some form of KP or experience estimating pre-sorting still takes place is a clear proof that players feel as though it is working and beneficial to them.
